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--- en:misc:talk-saine-schwarcz [2012/12/13 17:57]
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+++ en:misc:talk-saine-schwarcz [2013/02/08 16:00] (current)
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 {{anchor:s2}}
 This is a transcription((created with the permission of André Saine, the publisher of the said video)) of a [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2uBBU4XT7Y|YouTube video]] recording a talk on homeopathy that took place on the premises of McGill University, November 27<sup>th</sup>, 2012. The topic of the talk was //Homeopathy: Mere Placebo or Great Medicine?//, the opponents were Dr. André Saine and Dr. Joe Schwarcz.
+After the debate, Drs. André Saine and Joe Schwarcz accepted to answer questions from the public by writing. Dr. Schwarcz also sent 18 questions to Dr. Saine. In return, Dr. Saine sent 27 questions to Dr. Schwarcz. These questions and answers were added to their corresponding pages:
+  * [[en:misc:talk-qa-schwarcz-saine|Questions from Dr. Joe Schwarcz to Dr. André Saine]]
+  * [[en:misc:talk-qa-saine-schwarcz|Questions from Dr. André Saine to Dr. Joe Schwarcz]]
+  * [[en:misc:talk-qa-public-schwarcz|Questions from public to Dr. Joe Schwarcz]]
 ===== Introduction =====
@@ Line 121: / Line 127: @@
 {{anchor:s147}}And here on the left you can see tin at the 10<sup>-60</sup> and on the right you can see tin at the 10<sup>-400</sup>. {{anchor:s148}}Now, you will say, “ //Yeah, but that was published in a journal of homeopathy//.”
-{{anchor:s149}}The same team [[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23083226|published]] in the //Journal of Langmuir//, which is a very, very prestigious journal of chemistry -- actually, it’s one of the journals of the American Chemical Society, and they have a motto, which is: “//The most trusted, the most cited, and the most read journal.//” And this team from the Indian Institute of Technology confirmed that they found particles even at these extreme super-Avogadro dilutions, and they found out a process.[(nanostudy>Chikramane PS, Kalita D, Suresh AK, Kane SG, Bellare JR. Why Extreme Dilutions Reach Non-zero Asymptotes: A Nanoparticulate Hypothesis Based on Froth Flotation. //Langmuir.// 2012 Nov 13;28(45):15864-75. doi: 10.1021/la303477s. Epub 2012 Nov 1.)]
+{{anchor:s149}}The same team [[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23083226|published]] in the journal of //Langmuir//, which is a very, very prestigious journal of chemistry -- actually, it’s one of the journals of the American Chemical Society, and they have a motto, which is: “//The most trusted, the most cited, and the most read journal.//” And this team from the Indian Institute of Technology confirmed that they found particles even at these extreme super-Avogadro dilutions, and they found out a process.[(nanostudy>Chikramane PS, Kalita D, Suresh AK, Kane SG, Bellare JR. Why Extreme Dilutions Reach Non-zero Asymptotes: A Nanoparticulate Hypothesis Based on Froth Flotation. //Langmuir.// 2012 Nov 13;28(45):15864-75. doi: 10.1021/la303477s. Epub 2012 Nov 1.)]
 {{anchor:s150}}I’ll show you: here is the process of trituration, and here is the process of dilution. {{anchor:s151}}After three series of trituration, it goes into a solution, and then the succuss. {{anchor:s152}}And then as this process progresses, there are nano-bubbles that accumulate in an asymptotic manner. {{anchor:s153}}That means it never reaches zero. {{anchor:s154}}So as you are diluting and succussing, the nano-bubbles actually multiply.
@@ Line 416: / Line 422: @@
 {{anchor:s682}}Now, the main finding of this comprehensive review of the literature, which included all the epidemics that homeopathy was involved in all over the world, from the earliest one in 1796, which was scarlet fever, until now with leptospirosis in Cuba.
-{{anchor:s683}}The main findings were: “//Results obtained by homeopathy during epidemics// //reveal a very important and clear constancy: a very low mortality rate.// //{{anchor:s684}}This constancy remains, regardless of the physician, time, place or type of epidemical disease, including diseases carrying a very high mortality rate, such as cholera, smallpox, diphtheria, typhoid fever// , //yellow fever and pneumonia//.”
+{{anchor:s683}}The main findings were: “//Results obtained by homeopathy during epidemics// //<wrap hi>reveal a very important and clear constancy: a very low mortality rate</wrap>.// //{{anchor:s684}}This constancy remains, regardless of the physician, time, place or type of epidemical disease, including diseases carrying a very high mortality rate, such as cholera, smallpox, diphtheria, typhoid fever// , //yellow fever and pneumonia//.”
-{{anchor:s685}}I’ll give you an example. {{anchor:s686}}In 1849, there was a major epidemic of cholera all over the world, but we’re going to focus only on Cincinnati. {{anchor:s687}}Pulte and Erhmann treated 2600 cases with only 35 deaths, or a mortality rate of 1.3%. {{anchor:s688}}The mortality rate for cholera in the 19th century was 50%, regardless of the physician, the place, the country or whether the patient was treated. {{anchor:s689}}In Asia, in Egypt, in Tunisia, in Turkey, they didn’t have treatment, and the mortality, was around 50%. {{anchor:s690}}Regardless of the treatment, the mortality was 50%. {{anchor:s691}}And “//despite having 60-70 cases that were in a deep state of collapse// ,” (Pulte and Ehrmann only had a mortality rate of 1.32%).
+{{anchor:s685}}I’ll give you an example. {{anchor:s686}}In 1849, there was a major epidemic of cholera all over the world, but we’re going to focus only on Cincinnati. {{anchor:s687}}Pulte and Erhmann treated 2600 cases with only 35 deaths, or a mortality rate of 1.3%. {{anchor:s688}}The mortality rate for cholera in the 19th century was 50%, regardless of the physician, the place, the country or whether the patient was treated. {{anchor:s689}}In Asia, in Egypt, in Tunisia, in Turkey, they didn’t have treatment, and the mortality, was around 50%. {{anchor:s690}}Regardless of the treatment, the mortality was 50%. {{anchor:s691}}And “//despite having 60-70 cases that were in a deep state of collapse// ,” (<wrap hi>Pulte and Ehrmann only had a mortality rate of 1.32%</wrap>).
-{{anchor:s692}}Now, there was a skeptic that said that they cheated. {{anchor:s693}}So there was a commission that was instigated, and the commission was chaired by Alfonso Taft, who became Secretary of War eventually under Grant, and his son became President of the United States, so he was a reputable person, and the commission’s outcome was that what the homeopaths had reported was exactly true to the point, in every single case.
+{{anchor:s692}}Now, there was a skeptic that said that they cheated. {{anchor:s693}}So there was a commission that was instigated, and the commission was chaired by Alphonso Taft, who became Secretary of War eventually under Grant, and his son became President of the United States, so he was a reputable person, and the commission’s outcome was that what the homeopaths had reported was exactly true to the point, in every single case.
 {{anchor:s694}}Now, I’m going to look at a second disease, if I have one minute: pneumonia. {{anchor:s695}}Osler reported that the mortality of pneumonia since around 1850s has been steady at 30%; even himself at John Hopkins had 30%. {{anchor:s696}}Homeopaths will obtain results with less than 2%, and usually more like 1%. {{anchor:s697}}It’s remarkable when we consider that 1 out of 25 Canadians dies of pneumonia now, when we could lower the mortality dramatically just by using those little pills that Joe is talking about, those good placebos.
-{{anchor:s698}}I have been in practice for 30 years. {{anchor:s699}}I have seen the worst cases of patients with acute and chronic disease, and I can testify to you that there is nothing in the history of medicine that I have studied more extensively. {{anchor:s700}}I have also written a thesis on the placebo effect in homeopathy, so I am very aware of the placebo effect, but there is nothing in the history of medicine that can come close to homeopathy. {{anchor:s701}}This is the future of medicine. {{anchor:s702}}If you want to move forward, move towards homeopathy. {{anchor:s703}}If you are a scientist in basic science, move toward the study of nanoparticles and so on - it’s the future! {{anchor:s704}}We’re not looking behind now! {{anchor:s705}}Science is moving forward, Hahnemann was a precursor of nanotechnology, and I have to stop here.
+{{anchor:s698}}I have been in practice for 30 years. {{anchor:s699}}I have seen the worst cases of patients with acute and chronic disease, and I can testify to you that there is nothing in the history of medicine that I have studied more extensively. {{anchor:s700}}I have also written a thesis on the placebo effect in homeopathy, so I am very aware of the placebo effect, but <wrap hi>there is nothing in the history of medicine that can come close to homeopathy</wrap>. {{anchor:s701}}This is the future of medicine. {{anchor:s702}}If you want to move forward, move towards homeopathy. {{anchor:s703}}If you are a scientist in basic science, move toward the study of nanoparticles and so on -- it’s the future! {{anchor:s704}}We’re not looking behind now! {{anchor:s705}}Science is moving forward, Hahnemann was a precursor of nanotechnology, and I have to stop here.
 {{anchor:s706}}(APPLAUSE)

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